ut4_herring

[BludShoT]

I think this map is possibly good enough to be included on a FTW *ladder*, but not the FTW league. It has various problems:

- barbed wire

- acid water (like a space map void)

- the long tunnel underneath kind of cheapens the CTF gameplay, at least according to dondon and I think I agree with him

- particularly bad FPS because the map is not optimized. It seems clear the mapper was more interested in things looking fancy than in having good FPS

- crazy crap all over the place to get stuck on. Besides just bumping into things, to which you could say 'Well Don't bump into things', the other problem is the various things on the ground like ledges and what not, which kill many strafe jumping attempts.


Someone in iCu said during our scrim, "I'm fighting the map!". You shouldn't have to fight the map, I don't even know if I need to articulate this, but yeah the map should be competition worthy if it's to be used in competition.

It's a fun little map for pubs or maybe a ladder though. The number 1 problem in my opinion is just the scale and all the junk lying around in the base getting in your way and stuff.


Having said all that, I do admire the technical skill and 3D artistry that obviously went into this map! (But that is irrelevant to the subject at hand.)

[Divinity]

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- herring is a strategical disaster.

[don]

Herring is a technically, well, not good, but decent map. It's symmetrical, it's pretty, and it's not full of shit to run into (like Tunis or something). The FPS is, imo, the big problem with this map. e6750 c2d, 4gb ddr2, 8800gt should NOT be getting 80 fps on any map in UrT, especially with the really low graphical settings I use. It's clear the mapper didn't consider r_speeds or properly block the map off for vis (I think I got the terms right!).

The water and barbed wire are on top of the minor issues list for me. That's just not For The Win Gaming League material. It's not enough to dq the map, but it's pub-mode through and through.

The tunnel is a tactical problem. It cuts straight through the map. I don't think the middle room having an entrance is enough to balance it out. Get the flag in the tunnel with a few bars and no enemies past the barbed wire ramp, and you're home free. It's impossible to catch up due to the twists and turns. I don't feel confident saying the tunnel is actually a problem, since my total experience on Herring is 4 rounds, 1 of which was on a pub. GlaD's strategy for round 2 revolved around bringing the flags back through the tunnel. 3 left, 2 d, 1 tunnel. The 3 left would kill everyone in T's base, then escaped through the tunnel with the flag. Considering that we had zero practice with that strat and had just lost round 1 (unnerving, to say the least), I think we did quite well. I'd love to say that's due to our CTF skillz, but I think the tunnel is just OP. But again, I'd have to play it more or see demos of how other clans played it.

[solitary]

Great map from the demos i have seen barb was not a factor at all. Spawn time 14 would be perfect imo.

[Divinity]

Maybe I just need to play it more.

[Cookies]

I find it boring.

Herring is fun for about 10 mins then I'm done with it. There is no reward for speed. You just have to shoot better then the other team. I don't think this map feels like a UrT map.

If you must play it, raise the respawn time

[spooky]

I haven't played it in a long while but I cant imagine this being a very interesting or fun CTF map. Fun for TDM. CTF? Not so much.

Also, it cycles ppl out on loading 90% of the time. There is a slight issue I noted on the fence line area near the water where you can sit sort of off the view point.

[beast]

I accidentally downloaded it once. Horrible map.

[RayFinkle]

Eph too

[kenny]

I found this map fun.

[kenny]

I find it boring.

Herring is fun for about 10 mins then I'm done with it. There is no reward for speed. You just have to shoot better then the other team. I don't think this map feels like a UrT map.

If you must play it, raise the respawn time

Whats so bad about out shooting the other team. That takes skill and time to develop. If your all about speed go play some jump maps and get your shits and giggles done there. GlaD always had the foundation of teamwork and outshooting. We never did strats, weren't worried about being fast, we played our game very simple.

[BludShoT]

What's so bad about it is that it's just 1 aspect of the game, and a boring one at that. I like variety, and no matter what I do I will never be able to outshoot certain people face to face (at least on a consistent basis). If all this game was about was outgunning people face to face I would not play it.

[kenny]

What's so bad about it is that it's just 1 aspect of the game, and a boring one at that. I like variety, and no matter what I do I will never be able to outshoot certain people face to face (at least on a consistent basis). If all this game was about was outgunning people face to face I would not play it.

Thats where you distinguish players who join the league for fun, and for those who join the league to have fun and be competitive.

[BludShoT]

Not really, there are various aspects to this game, all of which are competitive. Things like knowing the maps well and understanding timings and when to flank or when not to flank, or things like movement. This is where I distinguish between the players with a broader view of competition and players with a narrow view.

[kenny]

Not really, there are various aspects to this game, all of which are competitive. Things like knowing the maps well and understanding timings and when to flank or when not to flank, or things like movement. This is where I distinguish between the players with a broader view of competition and players with a narrow view.

I was simply just giving you the viewpoint of someone who understands Higher Level competition. But yes, those are fundamentals as well.

[BludShoT]

Except that I understand higher level competition.

I was giving you the viewpoint of someone who understands that UrT is a small community. If only the players who thought and played like you were in a league there would be about 1 team in that league and I doubt they would have much fun playing themselves. If you are looking for a league with dozens of teams who are purely competitive you must look at another game. That's just the facts of urban terror's level of popularity when compared to something like CoD4 or CSS.

[kenny]

Except that I understand higher level competition.

I was giving you the viewpoint of someone who understands that UrT is a small community. If only the players who thought and played like you were in a league there would be about 1 team in that league and I doubt they would have much fun playing themselves. If you are looking for a league with dozens of teams who are purely competitive you must look at another game. That's just the facts of urban terror's level of popularity when compared to something like CoD4 or CSS.

Some players who have played as long only entertainment is through winning. Everything else has become second nature, and you really don't care anymore about the other stuff.