A petition

[iCu*HoVa]

I would like to begin a petition to help keep the disrespectful, childish, and immature players from competing in this league and am asking others to come forward and voice there opinion and vote to keep these players out of our competitive gaming atmosphere since they have nothing to offer, but disrespect, annoyances among other problems that have done lately, and I am positive there will only be more.

I feel glad, and its affiliates to there actions of late should not be allowed to compete here among other places after showing what type of team/people they are last night. There is no excuse for there actions. They strive to cause trouble for everyone they can and try to jeaprodize everything the priviledge that is offered to them to compete in our leagues. People like that have no right to participate in this community.

However I do not feel the whole team should be perma-ban, but i do believe a select few should. Zoo, kenny, solitary,dondon should be perma-ban, and i say this because zoo, as a leader/captain and dondon as a leader/captain knowling let them do this and participated in this, and the others lightly being as they are only members, but should be punished knowing what was going on and not speaking up. The other team members should be ban for the first season, depending on how they act through out that time of being ban.

If you go on letting these players act this way, this league will fall just as STA has been lately. The fate of our leagues depend on what admins let players and teams get away with. Action needs to be takin. Enough is enough. Ever since the 4.0 leak created by solitary and kenny, there has been nothing but trouble. They have shown what they are capable of doing, and give chance after chance, and only keep creating problems.

Please reply with your thoughts.

[Divinity]

It isn't a big mystery on how those guys have behaved with respect to STA. While last night was disappointing, I'm not sure I'm ready to personally say banning is a good idea since we have said this is an opportunity to start with a clean slate. I guess the question is where are we drawing the line in the sand and saying "your clean slate starts now"?

Unless we have given a clear indication of when that clean slate time begins, I think it is a bit reactionary and slightly hypocritical to say they can't join based on behavior in another league.

If the clock on the clean slate has begun and this was clearly stated, I missed it.

[beast]

Actually STA might have a fighting chance now that the real problems are gone now. But seeing as their failure to detect the players is sad. They should have ran IP checks earlier to catch those players. Hopefully we can get someone to work on that, I might even research some md5 stuff or something.

I hope the FTW admins handle this situation as best as possible and decide whether or not to let these players in because it seems that many of these players are banking to use FTW as their hideout from the law.

[Skotch]

Solitary is generally a nice person to me and a few others in ALPHA that I know of. I don't feel by banning these people would be good at the moment considering they were playing in STA, which in my opinion, isn't being run properly. If you'r saying that their actions werent very good, I agree - but there has been some other teams near the end of the season that didnt follow league rules either because we knew STA is dieing. The 2 teams, as far as I know, played Kingdom the week they were supposed to play Herring. They most likely did it knowing that it was the last season that Glad would play in the STA league. I believe the slate should be clean until someone announces that the "slate clock" has begun and further actions from that time would go into decisions.

Yes, Glad is arrogant, but what goes to say that you wouldnt follow suite if you knew you were one of the best clans out there and have proved it time and time again?

[Divinity]

The burden is on the league to police itself properly and handle issues as quickly as possible while still maintaining a clear head about things.

Having unambiguous rules that are enforced with an even hand should keep things running smoothly.

[un4]

STA knew glad was using proxies. Will FTW allow proxies as well?

[Divinity]

I don't know if this has been addressed, but I can't think of any reason it should be allowed.

[jpx]

i f1.

they are in, i am out. that simple.


that was pure non respect.

[beast]

they need to be able to identify players with a unique ip.

[Divinity]

IPs should be pulled from game server logs to ensure uniqueness.

jpx, I understand the situation last night was not an exceptional display of class, but I would like to point out that we either are offering a clean slate or we aren't. There is no middle ground.

If we are, someone needs to start the clock and say "anything from here forth" however that makes it rather difficult when we haven't refined and published the rules.

[un4]

I don't know if this has been addressed, but I can't think of any reason it should be allowed.

I can't think of any reason either. However some professional leagues do, such as CAL, but those leagues also have anti-cheats and player tracking in place. The fact is STA allowed it despite having these things and I'm curious what FTW's stance will be regarding the issue.

[spooky]

The burden is on the league to police itself properly and handle issues as quickly as possible while still maintaining a clear head about things.

Having unambiguous rules that are enforced with an even hand should keep things running smoothly.

This is the foundation for a smoothly and fairly run league.

Having said that, let all those who wish to play be allowed to do so. If wrong doing is detected, it should be dealt with definitively with permanent banning from the league - no middle ground.

[x8`]

If these people were not hacking, I don't see how we can ban them from FTW for what they did in STA. I respect all your opinions, and understand how some of you are very upset about the situation, but in terms of what we are trying to do here we are trying to start on a new slate. We're going to avoid these situations in FTW with a better ruleset, better admininstrating, and getting rid of silly bans that STA has placed over the years.

Although my information may be faulty here, I have heard that the STA admins knew what was going on and they failed to stop it. At FTW we would like to assure you that we will uphold our rules and bans.

Anyways, this thread is an example of STA's stuff coming over here, and we hope to avoid that! Thanks

[kenny]

I know many of you feel you got cheated by GlaD, what goes on behind the scenes sometimes can be really different then whats shown on the front. Regardless of how many of you feel about me/glad is your own issue. Later on tonight I'll be going into full detail with some of the admins/head admins of the ftwgl about how I did it, how to detect it, and what I would do next time if I were to do it again. Along with some other set rules I'd like to see implaced. Not because I am being forced to or even asked, because I want to.

[Merky]

All I know is I want to play some good games against good competition, drama-free. If my team wins, great, that is a bonus. If we lose, well that's okay with me as long as the match was an intense battle...have to lose sometimes to learn some things. I just want to play the damn game. Plain and simple. It's sad some of the BS that goes on in our community. The maturity level I've witnessed from some people is ridiculous. Most of us are adults, correct? I have trouble figuring that out. I'm in favor of not allowing asshats to be a part of this new league.

[iCu*HoVa]

Solitary is generally a nice person to me and a few others in ALPHA that I know of. I don't feel by banning these people would be good at the moment considering they were playing in STA, which in my opinion, isn't being run properly. If you'r saying that their actions werent very good, I agree - but there has been some other teams near the end of the season that didnt follow league rules either because we knew STA is dieing. The 2 teams, as far as I know, played Kingdom the week they were supposed to play Herring. They most likely did it knowing that it was the last season that Glad would play in the STA league. I believe the slate should be clean until someone announces that the "slate clock" has begun and further actions from that time would go into decisions.

Yes, Glad is arrogant, but what goes to say that you wouldnt follow suite if you knew you were one of the best clans out there and have proved it time and time again?


I know what kinda person solitary is. I have been friends with him and kenny for awhile now, in some ways I kinda introduced the two of them into competition while I was acting as a captain for poop after returning to UrT about 4 years ago. I just know what they are capable of, and no they don't care who they hurt in whatever is they want to do to disrupt things. Regardless if it was there last season for that league, or regardless if you think STA is "dieing" rules are rules and they should be followed. If people are going to act and do things there, they will do it here, are you clueless? They have already showed there true colors, and regardless of where they play it will NEVER change, and it's been proved over the last 2-3 years. I agree that most fo the slate should be cleared, yes, it only makes sense. But for some people, they keep showing up to this day what they are about, and it's about disrupting things for there own laugh and enjoyment. They could careless about anyone besides themselves. And as long as people keep letting them do it and not acting upon it, it will never stop, period.

Zoo: harboring known players ban from the league, very unsportsmanlike, causes tons of drama, flames players, disrespects admins, leagues and players. There needs to be some type of punishment here. he already said he doesn't care about this game.

Kenny: Hacked in a match, ban from forums and just kept making new accounts causing trouble for players, teams, and admins. Ban multiple times from competition, kept renaming finding new ips to come in and ruin for everyone cuasing more amdin headache, and problems. Leaked 4.0 before it was released causing problems for FS/SID. He has caused nothing but problems for not only STA, but for the creators of this game, the community, leagues, admins, players, and teams. Also assisting in ddosing players in the probowl, among other things. he should not be allowed here, and will only keep causing trouble.

Solitary: Basically just like kenny except he hasn't been caught with a hack. He has harbored ban players, he has been ban and aliased in matches also, numerous times. He leaked 4.0 with kenny, he participated in ddosing players, he has done nothing but cause headaches as well for everyone in this game.

Dondon: This is his first major offense, he shouldn;t be punished to bad, but he is setting a bad example as a clan leader/captain. I think he should be allowed to play here, but him and his participating clans need to be watched carefully, as he has shown he will harbor illegal players.

Glad Players: I think all these players should still be allowed to compete here, but same for them as don, they should be watched closer as they will do the same as far as harboring ban players, known cheaters and such.

Personally letting these players act the way they do in public and especially on STA and just opening the door for them here is a bad move, and I promise you it will hurt you in the end. Some of you need to open you eyes and learn what has happened over the last couple years with these guys and maybe think twice on what you're saying.

x8: I am not bringing STA's problems here, as a player of the game, and a member of the community, and as for my support for this league, I am voicing my opinion on the players at hand. This happened in STA yes, and it will happen here. I am just trying to save you guys headaches.


As far as the admins knowing, I don't think seti was 100% sure who or why there was a proxy being used, only a guess. And after seeing that he knew who it was. Yes there should have been something said before hand, but then people would have jsut bashed seti for being paranoid and starting problems. It's sad that admins should even have to do that. And saying that, it's just another reason why they shouldn't be allowed to participate.

As far as IP's, it's hard to keep track of players due to ip changes, proxy's etc.. There is almost no way of tracking people aside from a quake 3 GUID, and I am sure no one wants to go abck to quake 3. Maybe if the anti-cheat had some way in tracking players and identity then that would be fine.

All that being said. My point here is; these guys are who they are. They have showed the type of players they are time and again. What they did there is what they will do here. If you allow them to be apart of this league, it will only cause problems. Choose wisely on what you, the community, and admins of FTW decide.

EDIT: Skotch. To asnwer your question. I would NEVER lower myself to doing what they have done. As far as playing for one of the best teams out there, I do, it's called iCu*.

[x8`]

Well, I think we all know what could happen here allowing these people a clean slate. And I certainly do share a degree of disgust at some of the things that people have done in the past. But, I don't believe that we can have a true basis for banning them. That being said, these individuals will definitely be given a "short leash" when it comes to FTW. We're giving everyone a second chance, but there might not be a third chance.

[iCu*HoVa]

Well, I think we all know what could happen here allowing these people a clean slate. And I certainly do share a degree of disgust at some of the things that people have done in the past. But, I don't believe that we can have a true basis for banning them. That being said, these individuals will definitely be given a "short leash" when it comes to FTW. We're giving everyone a second chance, but there might not be a third chance.

Well x8, I believe you will do the right thing in the end, and I know you're a good person, and will be a great admin. Whatever you see fit is fine. I to am jsut disgusted by the way people have been acting, and just wish more would be done about it.

[beast]

one of the main reasons this was done IMO is to show to the community that STA is flawed. I think they got their point across.

[iCu*HoVa]

3east;1122']one of the main reasons this was done IMO is to show to the community that STA is flawed. I think they got their point across.

And it is flawed because of the players I pointed out. Think about it for a bit. The stress of having to deal with all of that on a daily basis will cause anyone to act out of order.

[beast]

check out their front page:: they are looking at ftw to be their sanctuary.

The concern now is:: will allowing them in, ruin FTW's rep so that some teams may not enter?

[Divinity]

It seems rather impossible to allow issues from another league to spill over into ours and pretend we are starting fresh. It just doesn't compute.

It seems to me that bans should be made based on *our* rules and doing that retroactively is just a bad idea IMO.

Clarity in rules and consistency in enforcement minimizes the opportunity for drama. It's pretty hard to argue against a ban if it can be pointed out which rule was violated and what the punishment should be.

[Divinity]

And it is flawed because of the players I pointed out. Think about it for a bit. The stress of having to deal with all of that on a daily basis will cause anyone to act out of order.

Establish the rules, ban offenders and relax. Anything else is a complete waste of energy.

[z00fle]

STA knew glad was using proxies. Will FTW allow proxies as well?

people like you still dont get it...it wasnt a proxy lol...similiar but not a proxy

If these people were not hacking, I don't see how we can ban them from FTW for what they did in STA. I respect all your opinions, and understand how some of you are very upset about the situation, but in terms of what we are trying to do here we are trying to start on a new slate. We're going to avoid these situations in FTW with a better ruleset, better admininstrating, and getting rid of silly bans that STA has placed over the years.

Although my information may be faulty here, I have heard that the STA admins knew what was going on and they failed to stop it. At FTW we would like to assure you that we will uphold our rules and bans.

Anyways, this thread is an example of STA's stuff coming over here, and we hope to avoid that! Thanks

FTW has no reason to ban players from a league with the exception of hackers/exploiters..You explained it perfectly

I know many of you feel you got cheated by GlaD, what goes on behind the scenes sometimes can be really different then whats shown on the front. Regardless of how many of you feel about me/glad is your own issue. Later on tonight I'll be going into full detail with some of the admins/head admins of the ftwgl about how I did it, how to detect it, and what I would do next time if I were to do it again. Along with some other set rules I'd like to see implaced. Not because I am being forced to or even asked, because I want to.

kenny is a good guy..cant wait to read his post. i never thought i'd say that about kenny..the only person who turned out to be completely rediculous in GlaD was sHr00m. I can say i made friends with kenny and solitary..good guys. Don was a good leader. He did most the work. I pretty much did strats and lineups against teams we needed strats for.

I know what kinda person solitary is. I have been friends with him and kenny for awhile now, in some ways I kinda introduced the two of them into competition while I was acting as a captain for poop after returning to UrT about 4 years ago. I just know what they are capable of, and no they don't care who they hurt in whatever is they want to do to disrupt things. Regardless if it was there last season for that league, or regardless if you think STA is "dieing" rules are rules and they should be followed. If people are going to act and do things there, they will do it here, are you clueless? They have already showed there true colors, and regardless of where they play it will NEVER change, and it's been proved over the last 2-3 years. I agree that most fo the slate should be cleared, yes, it only makes sense. But for some people, they keep showing up to this day what they are about, and it's about disrupting things for there own laugh and enjoyment. They could careless about anyone besides themselves. And as long as people keep letting them do it and not acting upon it, it will never stop, period.

Zoo: harboring known players ban from the league, very unsportsmanlike, causes tons of drama, flames players, disrespects admins, leagues and players. There needs to be some type of punishment here. he already said he doesn't care about this game.

Kenny: Hacked in a match, ban from forums and just kept making new accounts causing trouble for players, teams, and admins. Ban multiple times from competition, kept renaming finding new ips to come in and ruin for everyone cuasing more amdin headache, and problems. Leaked 4.0 before it was released causing problems for FS/SID. He has caused nothing but problems for not only STA, but for the creators of this game, the community, leagues, admins, players, and teams. Also assisting in ddosing players in the probowl, among other things. he should not be allowed here, and will only keep causing trouble.

Solitary: Basically just like kenny except he hasn't been caught with a hack. He has harbored ban players, he has been ban and aliased in matches also, numerous times. He leaked 4.0 with kenny, he participated in ddosing players, he has done nothing but cause headaches as well for everyone in this game.

Dondon: This is his first major offense, he shouldn;t be punished to bad, but he is setting a bad example as a clan leader/captain. I think he should be allowed to play here, but him and his participating clans need to be watched carefully, as he has shown he will harbor illegal players.

Glad Players: I think all these players should still be allowed to compete here, but same for them as don, they should be watched closer as they will do the same as far as harboring ban players, known cheaters and such.

Personally letting these players act the way they do in public and especially on STA and just opening the door for them here is a bad move, and I promise you it will hurt you in the end. Some of you need to open you eyes and learn what has happened over the last couple years with these guys and maybe think twice on what you're saying.

x8: I am not bringing STA's problems here, as a player of the game, and a member of the community, and as for my support for this league, I am voicing my opinion on the players at hand. This happened in STA yes, and it will happen here. I am just trying to save you guys headaches.


As far as the admins knowing, I don't think seti was 100% sure who or why there was a proxy being used, only a guess. And after seeing that he knew who it was. Yes there should have been something said before hand, but then people would have jsut bashed seti for being paranoid and starting problems. It's sad that admins should even have to do that. And saying that, it's just another reason why they shouldn't be allowed to participate.

As far as IP's, it's hard to keep track of players due to ip changes, proxy's etc.. There is almost no way of tracking people aside from a quake 3 GUID, and I am sure no one wants to go abck to quake 3. Maybe if the anti-cheat had some way in tracking players and identity then that would be fine.

All that being said. My point here is; these guys are who they are. They have showed the type of players they are time and again. What they did there is what they will do here. If you allow them to be apart of this league, it will only cause problems. Choose wisely on what you, the community, and admins of FTW decide.

EDIT: Skotch. To asnwer your question. I would NEVER lower myself to doing what they have done. As far as playing for one of the best teams out there, I do, it's called iCu*.

hova hova hova...nobody in here would disagree with you if this were sta..but its not..the fact is, we never hacked and had specific intentions regardless of ftw becoming a league or not. Read on after the next quote

3east;1122']one of the main reasons this was done IMO is to show to the community that STA is flawed. I think they got their point across.
exactly...or at least for me, because i could speak for myself..sta went to shit when seti lied about makin this anticheat bullshit that recognizes/detects players by their GUID..in fact GlaD promoted q3 cdkeys again..sta was stupid in the fact that they lied the entire time..So we gave them a taste of their own medicine.

3east;1124']check out their front page:: they are looking at ftw to be their sanctuary.

The concern now is:: will allowing them in, ruin FTW's rep so that some teams may not enter?

this whole incident will last a month tops..i mean who honestly still talks about mp3 and son and all that bullshit..its over...let me tell you guys something my momma tells me..."Michael, the sun is still gonna come up in the mornings and go down at night." Pretty much what momma is saying is Move the FUCK on..



It seems rather impossible to allow issues from another league to spill over into ours and pretend we are starting fresh. It just doesn't compute.

It seems to me that bans should be made based on *our* rules and doing that retroactively is just a bad idea IMO.

Clarity in rules and consistency in enforcement minimizes the opportunity for drama. It's pretty hard to argue against a ban if it can be pointed out which rule was violated and what the punishment should be.

We havent broken any rules of ftw, so what drama is there? Was there drama in the tournament of terror when solitary and kenny played? No. In fact, the ToT was a hit. Also when black republican was banned from sta and they still asked him to gtv/shoutcast...that had no effect on sta..why would it in ftw?

[Divinity]

We havent broken any rules of ftw, so what drama is there? Was there drama in the tournament of terror when solitary and kenny played? No. In fact, the ToT was a hit. Also when black republican was banned from sta and they still asked him to gtv/shoutcast...that had no effect on sta..why would it in ftw?

I merely mean that anything that was an issue in STA--whether justified or not--should be left there and not brought here.

We should learn from their mistakes but leave the baggage there.

[[T]Argonix]

Im not entire sure what was done in STA or who did what as I dont read nor have I ever read STA forums. I found little to no interest in them in all the time I played with [T] in that league.

For what was done it apparently angered some and brought up this petition of a ban and the discussion of when this "clean slate" starts.

Personally IMO the clean state started when you began wanting to be a part of this league its not something where you turn around and say well I can hack and cause shit and do all this stuff against STA but when FTW is 100% up and running Ill stop and Ill follow their rules and behave.

If you want people who are going to play here to treat and look at you with a clean slate and you tell them your not planning to do those kinds of things that were done before in sta or somewhere else here then why continue to do them? Why give reason for fellow players and people in the community to continue to distrust you?

I read a post saying that this was done to prove a point, to show people what could be done, and how its done, and say that well Im just showing you. No you werent showing the whole time on ur Ts2 or Vent you were laughing ur ass off at whatever you were doing dont say you werent because you know you were. Now well Ill tell them so they know what to look for and can stop it so others cant do it.

If something like this comes up make a post, tell the admins, take them in a server and show them privately what is being done,and how they can take steps to prevent it or catch people doing it dont make a public seen that will get people up in arms like this.

I honestly believe in giving everyone in the community with the exception of obvious blatant hackers a chance to play and enjoy a league where rules are enforced, proper and thought out decisions are made and people can be respectable and fair to fellow players, and admins. Its time to act like grownups if you want to be treated with a clean slate then act accordingly so people can give you that chance.

[Divinity]

I get what you are saying, but I still contend it is difficult to apply a standard that hasn't been created yet. More specifically, as far as I know, there are no published rules by which you can judge actions on the clean slate approach.

Clearly there are some emotions coming through here and I'd like to urge everyone to step back and relax for just a second. Spattering frustrations and emotions all over the forums will not solve anything and will only sew the seeds of contempt as happened in STA. Unless I'm mistaken, we are striving to be different here.

If it isn't already, it seems to me that the primary goal right now should be finalizing the set of rules for which season one will be operated under.

[jpx]

there should be at least a rule against trash talking. u trash talk during the game, u get a loss or something.

[Divinity]

The problem is that "trash talk" could be a very subjective measurement. If anything, forbid any crosstalk other than connection information and only then by team captains.

This kind of talk though should be under a "rules" thread or something.

[kenny]

To those individuals seeking more insight on this subject,

When I get a chance to sit down with some of the ftw admins, you are definitely welcome to sit in and listen and hear me out. (Angry people, or people who just want to yell in disgust are not welcome)

On another note lets just say STA showed its colors before I ever showed mine.

Again like I said, what's shown on the front end isn't always the case.

I have never ever felt the need to explain situations, and always left people to think of me the way they wanted. Maybe I should not have.

Finally to those who say that I simply do not care for this game, and all I like to do is fuck around with it. You could not be any more wrong. If I didn't care, I would not have been here as long as I have.

Awaits to talk to some admins....later days.

[iCu*HoVa]

To those individuals seeking more insight on this subject,

When I get a chance to sit down with some of the ftw admins, you are definitely welcome to sit in and listen and hear me out. (Angry people, or people who just want to yell in disgust are not welcome)

On another note lets just say STA showed its colors before I ever showed mine.

Again like I said, what's shown on the front end isn't always the case.

I have never ever felt the need to explain situations, and always left people to think of me the way they wanted. Maybe I should not have.

Finally to those who say that I simply do not care for this game, and all I like to do is fuck round with it. You could not be any more wrong. If I didn't care, I would not have been here as long as I have.

Awaits to talk to some admins....later days.


You were caught hacking in a match, point made. You got caught, admins took action, and you don't want to accept the punishment for what you done.

[kenny]

You were caught hacking in a match, point made. You got caught, admins took action, and you don't want to accept the punishment for what you done.

Again this idiot chooses not to read my posts, but continue to bash. Fucking viking.

Short and simple, yeah I had a wall hack on. I was taking a demo with it because there were hackers on the opposing team. At that time who didn't think xil were hackers/exploiters/scripters and being the first season without anti-cheat and with admins being as naive as ever I took it upon my self to try and prove it. I think solitary still has some demos archived in his gmail account. Again I'm not about to post a composition of writings. To those who bash, continue, but that wont get us anywhere. Shit that went down in August of 2007, has no bearing in 2009.

[Failasaurus-rex]

This situation is useful.
It highlights how the admins here need to create thoughtful rules with strong penalties when broken.
BlankityBlank used a proxy or sumthing like it , so rules number such and such has been broken, here is your penalty. No fuss no muss no indepht decision making process for an admin to do or be held against em. Rule broke, penalty handed out, end of story.

as far as those saying..if they play here i wont. Let there be a "here" first.
Rules havent even been finalized and shown to the community. If already your faith in how disruptives will be dealt with is so low, then perhaps anyform of a competitive league is not for you. Disruptives are everwhere in every league.
All we can hope for is that FTW enacts a set of rules/penalties that deal with disruptives in a concise manner.
I have no reason to not have faith in the abilities of this group of admins.

[kenny]

If already your faith in how disruptives will be dealt with is so low, then perhaps anyform of a competitive league is not for you. Disruptives are everwhere in every league.
All we can hope for is that FTW enacts a set of rules/penalties that deal with disruptives in a concise manner.
I have no reason to not have faith in the abilities of this group of admins.

This is an area that i'm willing to help in.

[iCu*HoVa]

Again this idiot chooses not to read my posts, but continue to bash. Fucking viking.

Short and simple, yeah I had a wall hack on. I was taking a demo with it because there were hackers on the opposing team. At that time who didn't think xil were hackers/exploiters/scripters and being the first season without anti-cheat and with admins being as naive as ever I took it upon my self to try and prove it. I think solitary still has some demos archived in his gmail account. Again I'm not about to post a composition of writings. To those who bash, continue, but that wont get us anywhere. Shit that went down in August of 2007, has no bearing in 2009.


I am not bashing you or any of them. Like I said, I have remained friends with you and soli over these years even knowing what you guys have done. After seeing that you guys went out of your way to bring STA down, a league that has been supporting this game for so long, it pisses me off and i don't think people should sit back and let it happen.I know you guys are smart, I know you can be nice guys, and I enjoy talking and playing with you, but enough is enough man. Look at what your doing, what you're causing. It's rediculous man. I am all about giving people chances, and I think you need to just relax and do the right thing. Show people who you really are, don't act like people you really aren't. I know you guys are better than this.

[Citrox]

It's rediculous man. I am all about giving people chances, and I think you need to just relax and do the right thing. Show people who you really are, don't act like people you really aren't. I know you guys are better than this.

How do you expect them to achieve this if they are banned?

[z00fle]

Just email me kenny..pm me whatever..ill be there

[Kr0m]

I was one of the 'naive' admins in charge of STA at the time of kenny's ban.
If you'd like, I can sit in on the discussion as well and provide input if needed so we can all come to some sort of terms of what everyone's true colours are. :) I could probably even provide time-lines to show who's 'true' colours came through first :P

[Divinity]

I'll cross post this from the other thread since it is fast becoming applicable here too:

I may be speaking only for myself, but I've reached my limit of STA references with respect to the past.

This is not STA. It was created exactly to NOT be STA. So bringing STA issues here is absurd in and of itself.

But that's just my feeling as an individual. I'm not sure how the (developing) community as a whole feels.

[kenny]

Again since people don't like to read my posts (kr0m), anybody wanting to sit in may do so.

[Despair]

Hova really needs to relax man...seriously heh. Enough bashing, and citrox has a point. How can they if they are banned?

And this isn't STA. There shouldn't be any issues here. Kenny's hack indeed was used to prove xil was hacking back in 2007. But again this is 2009, lets move forward here. Let's make this a better league.

[don]

i f1.
they are in, i am out. that simple.
that was pure non respect.
Oh no...
Empty threat anyway, since you guys obviously think STA is shit for being unable to stop yet another finals being wrecked and banned players being played.

Seti knew. He knew in week 2 or 3 (I forget). He and Version talked to me about who copen, skoal, and jarek were. He said that copen and jarek were obviously using a proxy, because he traced the IP to a datacenter. He asked me to explain this and I didn't give him a straight answer obviously. He came out and said that there are people near the datacenter (Seattle) who would employ such means to play in STA. He made it very clear that he meant Solitary and kenny. I flat out denied this which was apparently enough for him and Version, because I never heard another word from them about the legitimacy of our players. Version later gave Jarek permission to use his proxy. I verified this with Version. All they had to do was add a rule saying player IPs must be owned by a residential ISP, or else they're not allowed to be used. That's all that needed to be done to stop this in week 3. That's faster than Seti and mrSentry and whoever else managed to catch nGw where there was nothing being used to hide Kenny besides another 5 letter alias starting with K. STA failed massively.

Edit: Aww that's cute, Seti is insulting GlaD rather than actually trying to salvage his train wreck of a league. Typical.

[Despair]

Seti has been going on insulting GlaD now that he has us all banned from the forums. He's probably thinking he's succeeded when all he has done is fail miserably and is continuing to do so with his "league". I don't even consider STA a league anymore with the way its been run lately and the choices that were made. Which is why I want FTW league to succeed as a great league and have admins run the shit who know what they are doing. Which seems to be happening so far as great ideas in some other threads I seen have been being produced from the community. I would really like to see this league be great and succeed where STA has failed so badly for a while.

[iCu*HoVa]

Oh no...
Empty threat anyway, since you guys obviously think STA is shit for being unable to stop yet another finals being wrecked and banned players being played.

Seti knew. He knew in week 2 or 3 (I forget). He and Version talked to me about who copen, skoal, and jarek were. He said that copen and jarek were obviously using a proxy, because he traced the IP to a datacenter. He asked me to explain this and I didn't give him a straight answer obviously. He came out and said that there are people near the datacenter (Seattle) who would employ such means to play in STA. He made it very clear that he meant Solitary and kenny. I flat out denied this which was apparently enough for him and Version, because I never heard another word from them about the legitimacy of our players. Version later gave Jarek permission to use his proxy. I verified this with Version. All they had to do was add a rule saying player IPs must be owned by a residential ISP, or else they're not allowed to be used. That's all that needed to be done to stop this in week 3. That's faster than Seti and mrSentry and whoever else managed to catch nGw where there was nothing being used to hide Kenny besides another 5 letter alias starting with K. STA failed massively.

Edit: Aww that's cute, Seti is insulting GlaD rather than actually trying to salvage his train wreck of a league. Typical.

Everyone is missing the whole point here... The point is, it shouldn't had happened to begin with. As a leader you shouldn't have allowed it. Keep going on about how you are willing to help bring down a league, please go on.

[z00fle]

hova we know what we should have and should not have done...we are not two years old..you are missing the point on why we did it..who cares...sta was effected, not ftw...you guys act like we are hackers and exploiters..the fact is, sta proved a point by allowing stupid shit to happen, such as solitary being banned for starters and saying there will be an anti cheat over 4 seasons ago. We just happened to prove a bigger point back..Doesnt matter how many times you will ban us and doesnt matter how much you will change the league to make it better, but the fact is, if you dont have anybody is agreeance on some things, then you are gonna have a shitty league..sta is a joke anyways. seti quits his admin position, then 2 weeks later he bans people lol...version shuts sta urban terror down, then all of a sudden they are talking about next season rules..lol Hova you are the type of person to never understand why we did what we did..even after explaining it to you in full detail..You just think since we did that in sta, then we shouldnt be able to join ftw cuz we could do it here..the fact is, its a new league. If lucky is an admin, everyone in GlaD is gonna fucking play..ffs..you cant be that fucking stupid..ban me for misconduct in another league without that even being in ftwgl's rules..that would be a good start to ftwgl..

[don]

Everyone is missing the whole point here... The point is, it shouldn't had happened to begin with. As a leader you shouldn't have allowed it. Keep going on about how you are willing to help bring down a league, please go on.

Didn't say what we did was right, and I will not ever say that, but it happened, and it's up to STA to stop such things from happening. Many things in life should not happen, but they do, and people are judged for how they respond. STA consistently fails to catch any wrong doing in their league. This season alone they failed to act on Zipes who WAS FUCKING HACKING until Cookies brought it up. They knew we were doing something fishy and let it happen. "Illegal" acts are committed most of the time when there is opportunity. We saw a huge gapping hole called STA admins who would allow us to play.

[BludShoT]

Stop using this forum to continue old STA crap or I'm going to start cracking skulls.

Our rules on forum use are not done yet, so in the meantime I will feel free to moderate them to make sure they don't violate the basic principle of "FTW is a new leaf" and leaving old crap behind.

Blaming STA for your clan's wrong doings is ridiculous, so leave it there instead of using this forum to insult people like seti (or any people frankly).

[don]

You are reading what you want to read. I am not blaming STA, I am saying they failed and FTW needs to learn from that. STA allowed us to play for 3+ months. I blame them for allowing us to play, not for our actions. There's a difference. If you don't want this stuff here, delete the thread when it's made.

[BludShoT]

I didn't delete it when it was started because I think people can have a chance to be adults and work through things and come out the other side going "ok that's over now let's move on". If you delete that can't happen.

[don]

You are overestimating all of us.

[Divinity]

Please stop. The current mantra is clean slate. While I respect everyone's right to be upset about things, this is not constructive at all.

Let's all work together to make this the kind of league it can be. If along the way someone violates rules we all agree upon, then we can bring out the pitchforks.

[Sinist3r]

Didn't say what we did was right, and I will not ever say that, but it happened, and it's up to STA to stop such things from happening. Many things in life should not happen, but they do.

Wow, you should be in politics.

Good luck FTWGL, I think you will find running this will not be as easy as you first envisioned.

[TheBest]

STA consistently fails to catch any wrong doing in their league. This season alone they failed to act on Zipes who WAS FUCKING HACKING until Cookies brought it up. They knew we were doing something fishy and let it happen. "Illegal" acts are committed most of the time when there is opportunity. We saw a huge gapping hole called STA admins who would allow us to play.

Funny thing is, it took me a month of ranting about zipes to get cookies to do anything about him. Only when me and TheWorst left fn because of it, did shit get done about it. Also even to this day, STA failed to penalize fn in any way over the wins over NN and [T] that zipes played in. No announcement was made that a hack was busted, no reprecussions at all. It's like it never happened. And yes, I knew Glad was cheating and at least one other "top" clan had a couple cheaters as well who used wallers, aimbots, and auto-shoot but STA was so FAIL I didn't bother to pursue it especially since nothing was done about zipes. Anyone with any real skill can spot a cheater from a mile away. If you're gonna run a league with no anti-cheat, policies for what constitutes a hack needs to be written up in a hurry and enforced because no one is going to stay in a league when hacks and cheaters are allowed to play, much less win the finals.

[Divinity]

Wow, you should be in politics.

Good luck FTWGL, I think you will find running this will not be as easy as you first envisioned.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never envisioned this as being easy. The things most worth it rarely are.

The psychology of the average gamer makes any sort of civil discourse a challenge in and of itself. That doesn't mean it can't be done and it certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Patience is and always will be a virtue.

[Sinist3r]

I think you will find when your time is deliberately being wasted your patience will wear paper thin.

[jpx]

Oh no...
Empty threat anyway, since you guys obviously think STA is shit for being unable to stop yet another finals being wrecked and banned players being played.

Seti knew. He knew in week 2 or 3 (I forget). He and Version talked to me about who copen, skoal, and jarek were. He said that copen and jarek were obviously using a proxy, because he traced the IP to a datacenter. He asked me to explain this and I didn't give him a straight answer obviously. He came out and said that there are people near the datacenter (Seattle) who would employ such means to play in STA. He made it very clear that he meant Solitary and kenny. I flat out denied this which was apparently enough for him and Version, because I never heard another word from them about the legitimacy of our players. Version later gave Jarek permission to use his proxy. I verified this with Version. All they had to do was add a rule saying player IPs must be owned by a residential ISP, or else they're not allowed to be used. That's all that needed to be done to stop this in week 3. That's faster than Seti and mrSentry and whoever else managed to catch nGw where there was nothing being used to hide Kenny besides another 5 letter alias starting with K. STA failed massively.

Edit: Aww that's cute, Seti is insulting GlaD rather than actually trying to salvage his train wreck of a league. Typical.

thanks for the insight. See i may have not known everything, from what i knew, that was the intelligent thing to say.

Im still not convinced on how they will behave but now i dont see you guys as the bad guys as obviously, i guess, both side knew what was going on (according to you).

thanks.

[Skotch]

I say close this thread. There is no need for a petition because of the general mindset that it is a clean slate.

This has gone off course with everyone saying shit about STA....WHAT HAPPENED IN STA STAYS IN STA. FTWGL is a WHOLE different league. Its like saying if Michael Jordan was banned from Baseball because he sucks then he should be banned from Basketball too. No, thats not the way it works.

Let Glad be Glad and play in FTWGL. I say drop it, close thread and stop bringing it up.

[x8`]

Amen!